Possible Qing Dynasty Plate and Questionable Rose Medallion Plate

by Garrett
(Kansas City)

Hey Peter

I picked up these two pieces today for 10 bucks at a flea market downtown and would love your input on them. The butterfly motif plate I believe to be authentic but the rose medallion plate I think might be a fake. I bought it as a reference in case I run into any other fakes while I collect. It just seemed in too good of shape to be authentic (although it does have signs of age). There is a link underneath so you can take a look. As always, I love your input and without your knowledge I would have a much harder time learning. Thanks again.

Garrett

s956.photobucket.com/user/gdunseth/slideshow/

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by: peter

The plate with the people is probably Japanese. Japan made some copies of Chinese motifs, but I could not tell right away which kiln or period this is from. The decoration, plate shape and mark would all agree with a Japanese origin, it is only the people which look Chinese.

The butterfly plate is another problem, but it is Chinese and old.
I know this type of butterfly decoration only from the 1920s, but could not tell if it existed in this form also in the 19th century. The plate body is much older, could even be 200 years old. Again, not sure. According to my information this type of foot rim was made in the 18th century only, but now and then late Qing dynasty items appear with that type of 18th century foot. We know tha some blank bodies made in the 18th century were available from stock for decades after the Qianlong era (probably only in some places). But I do not know if this explains this specific item... I do not know of any information source that can confirm this. As this is on-glaze enamel, it is also possible that a plain plate or one with only little decoration was overpainted later. This type of later decoration is fairly common.
So both body and decoration are old, but the butterfly decoration was likely painted much later than the body was made, and could be from the 18th century.

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