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Chinese fakes 2/1
by: peter

(continued)

Each collector (and I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE) has bought a number of fakes at one time, although some may not admit it.
Even museums, where teams of curators/experts are involved, do find fakes in their collections occasionally. It is true that high class fakes are difficult to detect even by the experts, but usually they are difficult and time-consuming to create, so the bulk of the fakes are just of average, easy to detect quality.
With the high class fakes they use old clay, glazes and pigments, handed down from the Qing dynasty, etc., and use old production methods and wood firing, to reproduce all possible age signs. But, I am convinced that spectrometric analysis (see https://www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/scientific-authentication.html) will decrease the faking industry in China, once it is more common and less expensive.
But, at present buyers still need to be careful (https://www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/buying-fake-antiques.html).
Basically, to everyone starting out I would recommend to stick with (1) export porcelain, (2) reputable online sellers, until the necessary knowledge is acquired, and (3) become a member or regular visitor of some online group of forum, where the purchases of other members can also be viewed and discussed. The latter may help accumulate more experience.

One of the most difficult things is to learn to avoid getting excited and switching to buying mode when you see something that interests you. It is always necessary to evaluate each item carefully, to make sure it worth it, and if there is the least doubt, to stay away.
Chinese fakes 1/2
by: peter

(This comment is separated into two parts due to length limitations of comments.)

Hello,
Yes, basically I cannot deny the possibility that the orange bottom is natural, but it is odd. I have never seen it that way. The problem basically is that if that item were of the period, it should have no orange color at all. The clay of the time was different from the times when high iron oxide content was normal, which would turn orange during firing. So that is why I think the bottom looks suspicious.

Sorry to hear that you are contemplating giving up, but I can understand it. Many collectors and even dealers give up when they come in touch with Chinese porcelain. Ceramics is probably one of the most complex areas in Chinese antiques, because of the faking, which actually was going on all the time since ancient times. The other area I know to be difficult is paintings. There is a lot to learn, but it is doable.
I recommend that anyone starting out with Chinese ceramics should limit himself to certain reliable sellers (there are some on Ebay too). But if you want to buy on your own, the knowledge to recognize a genuine or fake item is still a prerequisite. I tell you a secret (which is no secret actually)... Even experienced collectors, dealers and researches are not 100% proof against the fakes That is why we always must check a number of different features of an item (the more the better) and not a single one may be negative. It happens to experts also. Porcelain history in China is just much too long and varied that one person could know it all.

continued...see comment 2/2
FURTHER COMMENT ON THIS COULD BE NEW
by: Stewart

HI Peter,
I was fortunate enough to attend a local antiques expo where there were some Asian dealers...they said the base could be burnt orange this way,naturally through higher temp at bottom of kiln & also because the base is very thin compared to rest...possibly genuine', whoever they would not comment on age of the item as it would be a conflict of interests..the dealers there to sell & not give out appraisals.
That's all I could find out, but I have been told, that the scientific chemical sophistication of the Chinese in imitating old period wares right down to the last detail is so perfect, that the item could pass as genuine, but was made yesterday...very perplexing,when one wants to collect but can be fooled very easily apparently!
I think I might give up on Asian collecting, because the sophistication of copying, imitating is just too good & unless lab testing saves the entire arena, I am not going to waste any more money...am very sad, as I love oriental art...better & cheaper to appreciate it in a museum & have a higher probability of encountering less fakes..maybe?
tureen
by: peter

Can you upload a close-up picture showing some faces? The iron red bottom is unnatural... this could be new.

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