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IVORY YELLOW COLOR MASSIVE BOWL WITH FRUITS SPRAY

by Fikri Al Amudi
(Surabaya,East Java,Indonesia)

please help me to identify this Important Thing,. from what period of early Ming,.Thanks a lot,.

Comments for IVORY YELLOW COLOR MASSIVE BOWL WITH FRUITS SPRAY

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May 06, 2012
 New Info
by: Fikri Al'Amoudi

Dear,Peter,. I've found new info again about when the first time the Dear image detailed enough draw-ed on porcelain,.it was Song V Dynasty has did it for the first time,.

please see this link,.specially at Song V Dynasty ( left-side ) choose no:60,.Jin Cizhou bowl with overglazed enamelled floral motif,,.
www.koh-antique.com/shanghai%20museum/museummain.html ,,..

so the overglazed & Enameled started from
Song Dynasty & then followed by Yuan,Ming & Ching Dynasty,.

( MY COLLECTIONS SUMALI ALSO ENAMELED&OVERGLAZED )

& ALSO No:63 The Dear Image,.( Detail )

Thanks,Peter.
Nov 18, 2011
 Newest info
by: Fikri Al Amoudi

Dear Peter,.
please see this link,.explain a thousand word about The Deer images,.Ancient Chinese Work of Art,.

collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O494917/dish/

collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O494928/dish/

Thanks,Peter.
Nov 03, 2011
 plate
by: peter

Sorry, but I think you are confusing the presence of age signs with authenticity. Ages signs are only one factor in the evaluation.

An evaluation must take into account several factors, like:
1. Shape
2. Decoration content
3. Painting style
4. Colors used
5. Age signs

All factors must be right; that is, if a single check point above does not fit the picture, then the item cannot be genuine.
You mention that there are age signs (point 5, above), but I also said that the body might be old, but the decoration not. In fact, many fakes were using old porcelain items with little or no color decoration to paint on some decoration in order to give it a higher value. In this case points 2 and 3 are wrong, I'm afraid.

Chinese painting styles were always similar, only the painting quality was differing. Whether the items went to an Islamic country, Japan or anywhere else, the styles remained similar, but the subject shown would be different.
But the deer on this plate, for example, looks European. The plants, mountains, etc. are not looking very Chinese (style) either. With fruits, flowers, etc., traditionally always only certain types were used - not just any fruit or flower. Please be aware that some decorative elements on porcelain always used traditional Chinese patterns, no matter where an item was exported to. But the right patterns are missing here.

If you buy such items in Indonesia you should be careful; it is known that many Chinese items are being faked in Indonesia. You should first learn to recognize real decoration patterns, not look for age signs only. All points above must pass the check...if a single one doesn't, then the item is not authentic.

I recommend you get a second opinion. Did you try asianart.com?
Also, for pictures of genuine Chinese export items lifted from Shipwrecks in the South China sea, please visit mingwrecks.com.
Nov 03, 2011
 My Views
by: Fikri Al Amoudi

I saw many signs of age of this IMPORTANT thing,.
here they are : ( came from your site )
www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/images/ming_celadon.jpg
www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/images/agecrackles.jpg
www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/images/rust_spot.jpg
/www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/images/ming-jar_strip.jpg
www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/images/spider_crack.jpg
/www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/images/ming_firingfaults.jpg
www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/images/ming_firingfault.jpg
should I give you more close up photos,? 4 photos is not enough for detecting fake or not,.I believe there were millions porcelain/ceramics has been exported to South East Asia,.where the Kingdoms of Islamic has been making much more trading with ancient Chinese Royal trader,.& I believe there were thousands of Potter work for Imperial & worked for own earning,,..they had their own style,,specially for commoners or or good grade commoner's ceramic wares,.
thanks Peter,.
Nov 02, 2011
 plate
by: peter

Hello,
From these pictures it could be that the base (bowl body) is old, but they are not detailed enough to make sure.
The blue decoration is new or not Chinese. It appears to want to give the impression of Kraak porcelain, but it is quite dissimilar in decoration. Generally, it looks more like Japanese Imari; but the deer in the center medaillon is unreal for both Chinese or Japanese traditional styles. This looks more like the "child" deer Bambi in western children's books. The background also is un-Chinese.
In my opinion this is a fake.

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