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May 19, 2011
 Langyao vase
by: peter

Hi Andrew,
You never posted a full picture of the bottom. It might help, especially if it is taken in optimal light conditions.

You should not forget that the bottom, especially the footrim, provides a good hint at the possible time of manufacture. Of all the points we have to check, the bottom is the most important. It is best to study the footrim changes, which may not be that easy, depending on the sources you have for studying these.

The part of the rim that is visible makes it seem that it must be either late Qing or early republic. If everything is right in this respect, the vase cannot be too far into the 20th century. But, please also be aware that much of the work (methods) in the early republic would have been the same as in the Qing period, thus it may be difficult to decide exactly whether it is earlier or later.
We here usually say late Qing/early republic in such a case. Unless there is a mark, it is often not too important.
May 19, 2011
 FURTHER DISCUSSION ON LANGYAO VASE
by: Andrew

Hi Peter,
Just did a lot of research on the internet only,it is my only source & access to information on Chinese porcelain. I am definitely no expert & definitely don't know more than you on this subject., however the date attributions are quite a serious matter, if one takes into account, that their might have been a practice, of trimming Langyao glaze edges, in the C18th, but obviously it was more frequently done in the C19th & into modern times, on all sorts of glazes.
A hundred or two hundred years, of old age attribution, does make a big difference to categorizing into a period of production & even would affect value, maybe even adversely.

You are right, that all characteristics have to be taken into account & into proper context to estimate age & probable period of production.
I was hoping that my langyao vase might actually be earlier manufacture than Republican, but I really don't know how to attribute age by looking at the porcelain colour on the base of mine; anyhow it passed an acetone scrub.
It does have a couple of pinholes & a fair bit of crazing on the overglaze on the base, which in some places has taken on the colour of a very pale yellow staining in the cracks, but not as dark as what appears on the neck.
Some of the old age cracks on the base,6 of them, which appear on the unglazed porcelain around the base of my vase,are actually showing through some of the adjoining white overglaze on the base; these cracks/ crazes? appear lightly stained & lead me to conclude that the porcelain paste body, cracked first, then in time, so did the overglazed sections above the cracks on the base!... is this detail important?...the reason I ask is, is the porcelain paste body harder than the overglaze? & if so, then, can one assume that the age crack on the body paste,( does not look like a firing crack)took longer to develop than the rest of the natural age crazing on the overglazed base?CAN THIS HELP WITH AN AGE GUESS?

COULD THIS SUGGEST GREATER AGE OF THE PORCELAIN, THAN THAT OF THE AGE OF THE TYPICAL, GLAZED BASE CRAZING ?

OR Could the base have been overglazed at a later time after production finished?
Could the foot have been trimmed at a later date also...maybe to keep in current fashion & taste from that of maybe an earlier style?
Could this suggest greater age?
IT is confusing, I even have modern period jingdezhen flambe wares, stamped China or made in China, that exhibit natural all over crazing, so I guess crazing cannot tell you that a piece is very old even!
as usual, your input is VITALLY NEEDED & HIGHLY REGARDED.
humbly yours, Andrew.
May 17, 2011
 Langyao vase
by: peter

Hi Andrew,
No doubt you know more about the subject than me.
I am pretty sure that the glaze is ground off from the foot of some red vases because the glaze is running down during the firing. As far as I know this problem is more prevalent in late Qing and republic vases. In the case of Langyao vases I am not sure if that happens, I only know that it happens with some red monochrome vases. There are several different types of red vases, and the composition of their glaze is probably different too.
Some other types I have seen don't need trimming. Last week I handled a red vase of the Qianlong period which didn't need that, but then, it wasn't a Langyao vase either. It had an altogether different bottom.

In my view the dealer's vase you uploaded is more likely from the late Qing/republic period due to one reason - the white bottom. It looks too white. A glaze that is snow white is usually more likely late Qing or later.
Before chemical dyes were introduced, the white was often more mellow. This does not mean all white glazes where snow white. Even in the early republic some porcelain items still used mineral dyes.

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