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Famille Rose Rooster Tureen

by Jefferson
(United States)

Chinese Export Famille Rose Rooster Tureen

Chinese Export Famille Rose Rooster Tureen

To quote from the answer received per an inquirey made several years ago to Jan-Erik Nilsson of -and viewable still at that website-with my photos (search: Rooster tureen with strange mark), As translated by, Mr. Simon Ng at the City University of Hong Kong.. the mark read(s) as 'Ya Wan? Zhen Chuang' (Delicate Collectable Precious Treasure). It is in Ng's opinion, a "modern piece art work mark or a seal for a collector's personal identification use."

Mr. Nilsson, himself, followed with his own comment: "This rooster is very interesting and of a remarkable integrity. From the looks of it I would not rule out a late Qing dynasty date for it, and a considerably value."

I certainly am grateful for both the time and effort afforded my question by these gentlemen but, clearly, I am left with a desire for, well, more actual factual information.
The statement, basically, that marks mean little is accepted whole heartedly by me-particularly because who can trust markings untranslatable by even the peoples who and for they were created. So;

Is my tureen 'modern'?
Is it Quing dynasty?
Is it 'considerably value'(sic)?
It it....well....wasting my time and, now, your time?

Thanks (or sorry)for your time.

Comments for Famille Rose Rooster Tureen

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Jun 19, 2011
value of antiques
by: peter

Hi, you are confusing value with age.
Basically, that something is antique or very old does not necessarily mean it has value. There are lots of Ming or earlier ceramics with only a low collecting or monetary value. In fact, Chinese ceramics from before the Ming dynasty often are lower priced than the later ones. What has value is items from renowned kilns that were famous already during those days. Large quantities of similar antiques in existence also decrease value.

As to republican or 20th century items. These can have a high value if they are rare or made by a famous potter/porcelain painter.

Mar 11, 2011
Famille Rose cockerel tureen
by: Jefferson

I appreciate and am thankful for the time given to comment on my Cockerel tureen. I'm late with this praise because of my seriously ill twin. Since 2001 I have learned that my tureen may be as old as early twentieth century or as new
as mid twentieth century; worth as little as $50 (US) or as much as $600-$1,200.
I have learned from serious collectors of Chinese porcelain that the seal mark is, for the most part, useless and uninformative.
Of course, one has to consider that in some lands, so many variations of dialect abound as to make interpretating a phrase difficult for people who live as close to each other as the next block. (exp. Egypt airline flight crash voice recorder from which no linguists could agree on the exact meaning of copilot's last words).
Alas, after 10 years of serious time and effort searching the Internet, finding photos of only 4 other figural Famille Rose tureens -identical in terms of measurements, weight and appearance-except being ducks and a goose worth thousands of dollars-all I've learned is, while
I may not know a valuable thing when I see it,
I do seem to know when something I see looks deceivingly valuable.
The only dilemma I face now is, do I feel stupid, asking for a low starting bid of $50 or guilty for asking for a $600 opening bid...

Jan 11, 2011
I agree that this could be late Qing
by: Anonymous

Late Qing is not out of the question (the Qing Dynasty, at least as the ruling power in China, came to an end in 1912). It is also possible that it is from a bit later, from the Republic of China period that immediately followed (perhaps as late as 1920?). From my sense of the piece, although I cannot say with any certainty, that a date of circa 1920 is not unreasonable.

It appears the piece is unglazed, with paint applied after firing. I don't think, as a result, that it was ever intended as a tureen, but probably as a box. The interior is also unglazed which further supports this conclusion. (I certainly wouldn't put any foods or liquids in it.)

Overall, the piece is very unusual. The fact it doesn't have "Made in China" or other identifying marks on it would seem to indicate that it was made for domestic consumption and maybe even immediately local use.

The attention to detail in the paintwork, what appears to be minor wear on the paintwork, and chip to the inner rim, all seem consistent with an older piece, as does what appears to be a patina on the paintwork. The forms less refined molding would also seem consistent with a Republican date. Overall, I would say it's an early 20th century folk art piece. About its value, I can't say. But it would be worth investigating.

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Jan 08, 2011
rooster tureen
by: peter

Basically, I understand the reason for both opinions, but I lean more to the view of Mr Simon Ng.
There are two main reasons I believe it probably is rather 2nd half of 20th century.

1. I don't know for sure whether this type of rooster would have been possible in antique (Qing) porcelain, but I am convinced that the eye would not have been painted that way, then. It looks more like a human eye than that of a bird. Eyes are one of the basic means of identification for antique Chinese porcelain, as they differed throughout the ages. This eye is more of a western style, and would not have been possible in the late Qing dynasty, I believe. It became popular later in the 20th century, after Chinese crafts opened up to western influences.

2. Proper Mandarin (standard Chinese) Pinyin reading of the mark would rather be 'Ya Wan Zhen Cang', as far as my Chinese language knowledge is concerned. But, I am sure that the original meaning of Mr Ng is the same...
In my view this mark is also a product of the 20th century. The type of characters used is something that came into use only in the 20th century, and probably not the first but rather is from the 2nd half.

The darkened interior may give it an old look, but I'm afraid it could be just dirt or something smeared on in order to make it look that way.
Value-wise I cannot help you, but you could try to check.

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