Chinese or Japanese Famille Noire baluster vase, marked "Edo Period"

by Mike
(Hawaii)

Chinese baluster style porcelain noire vase, famille verte. 12.5" tall, 6" wide. Black background with multi colored flowers.

I am interested in identifying the maker's mark and age. Could be old, could be modern. Would like to know if this is trash or treasure.

Update: This may be Japanese. The top and bottom characters on the right translate to "Edo period". However, that is a really long historical period; from 1603-1868. If the mark is not a fake, then this vase dates back at least to the mid nineteenth century. The other 2 marks refer to year and manufacture.

Update (again): I found this link, which google will translate:

www.gucn.com/Service_CurioCheck_Show.asp?Id=237370

Someone in China found the identical pattern and mark on a covered jar. He paid 3000 yuan for it (about $470). He is also looking for information on age and manufacture. It keeps getting more interesting!

Comments for Chinese or Japanese Famille Noire baluster vase, marked "Edo Period"

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Vase
by: Snap

The combination of Japanese supposed period mark on right and Chinese "reign made" on the left is quite humorous and does suggest new-made item. But possibly decorated in place where traditional styles of marks not well known.

The terms "famille verte" and "famille rose" were invented by Western collectors in the late 19th century for Chinese 18th-century enamel decoration dominated by green (French: "verte") and opaque pink (French: "rose") colors.

The term "famille noire" was also invented by Western collectors and/or faker-dealers for black-ground wares that became popular among Western collectors in early 20th century. A study of such wares' listings in inventories and catalogues found no entry for this term before early 20th century. Very few were actually made in 18th century, and a great many fakes decorated with crowded polychrome flowers were made in 20th century.

These terms should really be used for the wares they were invented for, not for just anything with some green or some pink enamels, or with a black background.

edo period marked items
by: peter

Yes, I looked at that too. They may come from the same factory. Probably they come from the same factory and were made for export.

Thanks Peter!
by: Mike

Thanks Peter! I was kind of hoping it was not old. Now I can enjoy it without worrying about it. I was even thinking of turning it into a lamp. It was the mark on the bottom that threw me. Did you check out the link? It's for a covered jar with the identical pattern and mark. That threw me a curve, too, since the owner is in China. Mike

vase
by: peter

The decoration on black ground has some similarities to a Chinese decoration made around the middle of the 20th century. However, the decoration on the vase shoulder looks more Japanese.
In addition I find the mark suspect. It imitates Chinese 20th century marks but says "Edo"?

Further, I doubt there were any marks called "Edo Nensei" (Made in the Edo years). The Edo era was probably not called that way until much afterwards, by historians, due to the fact that it was the seat of the Tokugawa government.

Overall the vase gives me the impression of being a 20th century Chinese fake passed off as Japanese.

Maybe someone else can confirm or correct this?

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