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LEFT for chinese-antique-porcelain.com

identifying Vietnamese porcelain dishPICT0018.jpg, PICT0019.jpg

by Diane Kenyon
(Big Island, Hawaii, U.S.)

Reverse of plate showing marks and attached labels

Reverse of plate showing marks and attached labels

Reverse of plate showing marks and attached labels front of plate-about 12 inches diameter

This blue and white plate , about 12 inches in diameter, has some identifying marks on the back plus two small affixed labels. One label says "Hue-Annam kingdom" with illegible number and XX underneath and "1800's". The other says "appraisal from Paris available upon request". Knowing from your site that marks are suspect in identifying a piece I'd love to have more information on it. There is a chip out of the edge. Only the rim is unglazed.I hope the photos come through. Thank you.
PICT0018.jpg, PICT0019.jpg


Comments for
identifying Vietnamese porcelain dishPICT0018.jpg, PICT0019.jpg

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Jan 10, 2011
 Chinese plate
by: peter

Hi Diane,
What I meant is if this Chinese dish is connected to Vietnam and France, it could have belonged to someone in either place in the colonial era.
Anyway, just forget what is written on the sticker. Sometimes there are old stickers, printed, written by hand or a with typewriter found on such items. They mostly refer to a dealer who owned/sold it once.

Sorry that I confused you with the link. The link itself is correct. Only, it is the second last picture. (The last one is only for decoration.)
What I meant, actually, is the third point under the title "The following two types of antique markings are NOT manufacturing marks". It mentions the drilled characters.
A generous gift! These are real antiques.
Usually, we see much more fakes than genuine items.
Jan 10, 2011
 response on Vietnamese dish
by: Diane Kenyon

Thank you for your response. Regarding your request for a URL, I didn't have a URL to accompany my submission, unless I accidentally attached something initially. (I am not computer savvy!)
Also I tried going to the web address you gave me ( to view text accompanying the last photo in the Marks section?) but it says no such URL available. I did look at your article on marks but the last photo was of a dated jar..... Would love to know if you have information on a Paris connection. You were correct that this reference as well as the Annam kingdom and 1800's were on the small affixed stickers on the back.
FYI I did not purchase this dish. It was given to me (along with another unmarked plate I will submit when I get photos) by someone who knew nothing about them and was moving. Thanks again for your fascinating and detailed information.
Jan 08, 2011
 dish
by: peter

Hello Diane,
I believe there was an URL to pictures on the web included, but it was accidentally deleted. Can you add it in a comment or via contact form, please, if your questions are not answered below?

I believe this is a Qing dynasty dish, but am not completely sure how old. My guess is 19th century, but could be earlier. While I have seen this type before, I am not quite sure about its age.

Hue was the capital of Annam, a Vietnamese kingdom that existed in today's central Vietnam, before Vietnam became a French colony. The court and nobility apparently purchased porcelain in China, called now Bleu de Hue (Hue Blue). This was Chinese export porcelain made specifically for Vietnam. Some items have a different flavor compared to porcelain used domestically, in China.
I assume Hue is mentioned on one of the white paper labels? See the connection to Paris...?

I'm not convinced, however, that this is genuine Bleu de Hue, made specifically for Vietnam. As I mentioned above, I have seen this type before, but related to China.
The other reason I have doubts is the two drilled characters on both sides of the mark, on the bottom.
(Please read the text besides the last picture on this page: http://www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/antique-porcelain-marks.html)

The point I am trying to make is that the Chinese characters define ownership with items that were lent out for communal use. The question is, would the upper classes in Vietnam have had such markings? Would they have shared their porcelain for communal use?
If this porcelain plate was found in Vietnam, I would think it either was taken there by some Chinese people for their own use, or this was an item already used in China, that was added to a batch for complementing a shipment to Vietnam.

Therefore, while Bleu de Hue proper is Chinese porcelain also, its name indicates a type of porcelain that was made specifically for Hue. It shows some differences. But probably some normal Chinese items would also have been shipped too. I have seen some ordinary Chinese porcelain being offered as Bleu de Hue on Ebay. But, I believe some ordinary Chinese porcelain was also shipped to Vietnam as is and was not made specifically for use in Hue.

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