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Mar 20, 2011
 shape
by: peter

It just occurred me that it could be a brush washer. But, I have seen similar items used as censer.

> could it be made elsewhere than China?

Actually, I have seen that shape many types, but not on antiques, but more on vintage items. Going through my antique books I cannot find this shape either. If it is purely from the shape, I would rather think it is Japanese, this also applies to the rim turned inside. Japanese items would be more likely to have the rim turned in. But, the color looks more Chinese. I wonder if you could provide a good picture of the writing inside. Maybe that provides a clue as to its origin?
Mar 20, 2011
 FINAL COMMENTS & MANY THANKS
by: Anonymous

Hi Peter,
thankyou for commenting on the piece from the written information I provided & pictures, you certainly made valid points for serious consideration.

I've seen pictures of some prototype Xuande bowls, imperial marked of course with this sort of shape & foot, but without the inturned rim.

the reason I mention this now is that I have left the last piece of info for last...the mark for last consideration,it has a blue normal script four letter Xuande mark on the base under glaze, I think it's an honorific mark that reads made in Xuande years?
could it be made elsewhere than China?

would be great for just one more reply from you on this one.
thanks again for your assistance, I certainly have benefitted from this forum, although I feeL I'll be more cautious now with future purchases
regards, Andrew.
Mar 20, 2011
 censer
by: peter

Andrew,
All Chinese alms bowls I have seen are made of metal, mostly brass or bronze, and are much higher, proportionally. They have no foot but a round bottom.

As I said, all censers of this type I've seen are different inside (color) and at the bottom. I cannot tell for sure say if this is old or not, but the brown foot rim is highly suspicious to me. The foot rim doesn't get that dark color by itself, or during firing, usually. If the clay is white it remains white, or may change a little (only) if a wash is applied.
Mar 19, 2011
 Reply to Peter's Assistance
by: Andrew

Hi Peter,
sorry for the sketchy information.
AS YOU SAY IT'S DIFFICULT TO EVALUATE WITHOUT ACTUALLY HAVING HANDS ON, SEEING IT
I had to dig out my observational notes I made quite some time ago....lot of months sitting on computers.
the censer or alms bowl is very heavy for it's size & has a thick base & walls tapering out to the turned in edge.
Measures just under 6.25"diameter, weighs about 582 grams!
Near perfect wheel turned with protruding dimple inside centre & on centre of base underneath.
mathematically near perfect dimensions.
cannot find error on inner diameter measuremets, edge to edge is always 140 mm.s ...have taken six radially different diameter measurements & all come to 140 mm.s

I find this technically extraordinary.

the cobalt blue is actually a very vibrant indigo hue in natural sunlight, full of dimples, some with clear bubbles in them like small eyes.
the cobalt also has black/ brown blotches & spots on its surface.
the cobalt blue has actually flowed down , in some places off the inturned rim & into the pale celadon glaze inerior.
has iron spots & specks visible under the transparent sea green type crakle glaze.
Have scrubbed base ring with acetone & appears cleaner, & whiter in some sections, but orange stain remains.The dark brown grit ring is over the cobalt glaze, but under the cracle glaze inside base.
mixed glaze bubble sizes.
Inerior & exterior full of pinholes, small pimple bumps & very evident orange peel surfaces.

Does this help anymore?

regards, Andrew.
Mar 19, 2011
 censer
by: peter

This "bowl" is actually a censer.
I have seen real items, but the blue isn't as dark, and the inside is not this color usually. I am not so sure about the sign of age. What I see here all can be faked. What I also find a bit disconcerting is the color inside and at the bottom. The foot rim looks also highly suspicious. It is too dark.

Without a hands on inspection I could not say how old or "young" this item is...
Anyway, as far as I know most of the censers with this shape I have seen were 20th century.

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