Chinese Blue and white jar

by Melvin
(Philippines)

Whole body

Whole body

Whole body Top part Lion handle in side of the body Dragon design

Hi again Mr. Peter may i ask if you can help me with this Blue and white Jar.... is this authentic or just a nice fake? and what do you think is this era Ming or Qing dynasty? they say it is came form a old veteran collection.

Thank you

Comments for Chinese Blue and white jar

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Thank you
by: melvin

Hi again Thank you to everyone and Mr.Peter for the guide and help you gave me. i have my decision already to leave the jar to the seller again.

fake
by: shen

Sorry

it's a fake
the original design should be Yuan period.
but the dragon and cobalt are all weird
you can see everywhere in Jingdezhen today for hundreds of RMB yuan.

jar pictures
by: peter

I see the other jar pictures have appeared.
No additional pictures needed.

The picture showing the interior clearly has no traces of a seam where upper and lower part are fit together. Pre-Qing items all should have it visible.
This is likely a more recent fake, not an old fake from a hundred years ago.
Again the points in question:
The dragon is questionable, especially its claws, in my view. It seems to copy Yuan, but is still a bit different. The shoulder decoration has a Ruyi band which also seems to copy Yuan, but is not that good at it. The bottom decoration band of stylized lotus petals looks like Yuan.
If it were Ming the lotus petals would be different.
It can hardly be a Qing copy of Yuan designs. The existence of Yuan blue and white porcelain was not known even to the Qing court, how could they fake it?
The existence of Yuan blue and white porcelain was only rediscovered in the 20th century.
In addition to that the bottom looks wrong...
And, this type/shape of jar did not exist until later in the Ming dynasty.
All these incongruent factors put together do only leave me one conclusion: fake, probably of more recent origin. My personal view.
Please ask for a second opinion. For example, you could try the Philippine Oriental Ceramics Society or a similar organization. They may have someone who knows Yuan porcelain well enough. It is better to have this checked directly, not via photographs.

additional question about the jar
by: melvin

Hi again Mr. Peter Thank you for the information you given me, ill also recheck the jar if ever it has a connection line between 2 parts of the jar... by the way if ever this is a later production, what do you think will this era be? early Ming, late Ming, early Qing, late Qing or early Republic era?

may i also ask if what parts of the jar needs more detailed photo Mr. Peter?

I have a guest it might be a Qing or later on, due to the presence of the lion design handle and lion on top of the cap

Thank you

B/W jar
by: peter

Unfortunately, the pictures in the first submission part didn't show up yet at the time I write this. Anyway, I try to help as good as I can with this.

First, as to the "old veteran's collection", if you kindly read the first section of http://www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/buying-antique-porcelain.html you will see what I think of this sort of provenance.

The dragon shown seems to be a Yuan dynasty dragon. As I cannot see the other pictures I will comment on the bottom and body only.

1. The unglazed bottom does not look right for that period.
2. Vases and jars of any size of that period would invariably have been made of at least two parts. The upper and lower parts were thrown individually and then stuck together. At least on the inside of vessels the line where the parts are connected should be clearly visible. Its absence likely means that it is a later product, probably a fake.

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Chinese Blue and white jar (part 2)

by Melvin

inside part of the cap bottom part of the jar Inside of the jar

Hi again Mr. Peter here are the other photos of the jar

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Chinese Blue and white jar (part 3)

by Melvin

Hi again Mr. Peter here is a more detailed part of the inside, i also do see a line around the jar in upper half part of the jar, it also have some a lot of hair line cracks in the line.

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Chinese Blue and white jar (part 4)

by Melvin

upper part flower

upper part flower

upper part flower Lion in cap back of the lion in cap flower design in cap

Hi again Mr. Peter here are more clear details of each past of jar design

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Chinese Blue and white jar (part 5)

by Melvin

bottom of the jar

bottom of the jar

bottom of the jar body of the dragon upper part of jar w/o a cap lion handle in side

other more detail photos

by the way in the photo of "the bottom of the jar", it still have some glue on it and still uncleaned

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It is fake
by: sal kahil

I live in Chinatown in Vancouver BC.
I see lots of items similar to yours, made to look antique. the bottom of your jar confirms my opinion: it is not an antique. However, the final decision is Peter's one.


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